Starbucks' Identity Crisis: Are They a Third Place or Just a Chain?
Show Notes
"Unfiltered" - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8912280/
- Other Half Brewing - https://otherhalfbrewing.com/
- Aporia Coffee - https://www.aporiacoffee.com/
- AM FM - https://www.instagram.com/amfm_coffee/
- Best of Panama
- Perfect Daily Grind
- - https://perfectdailygrind.com/2024/10/diversity-in-gesha-coffee-panama-processing/
- Joe Bean - https://shop.joebeanroasters.com/
- Ugly Duck - https://www.uglyduckcoffee.com/
Mentioned in this episode:
Joe Bean Roasters
Joe Bean Coffee - Coffee that lifts everyone. https://shop.joebeanroasters.com
Transcript
Welcome to the Level up podcast.
Wade Reed:I'm Wade Reed, and I don't know what the hell we're doing tonight.
Speaker B:I don't either.
Speaker B:I just pulled us all here to have some fun.
Wade Reed:Right, Wade, you just brought us here because you knew I would bring beers.
Speaker B:Oh, I was shocked.
Speaker B:Other half, if you don't know.
Wade Reed:I mean, now you know.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:Definitely my go to staple.
Wade Reed:Joined also by producer Chris Lindstra.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, we got some.
Chris Lindstra:We got some tired boys in the studio tonight.
Wade Reed:So tired.
Speaker B:Is he here?
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's got a fresh shaved head, though.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, yeah.
Chris Lindstra:I was on Connections earlier today.
Wade Reed:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:With Dawson.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:What'd you guys talk about?
Chris Lindstra:We're doing.
Chris Lindstra:Doing some impossible meets discussion.
Wade Reed:Okay.
Wade Reed:Yeah, yeah, cool.
Chris Lindstra:So we're doing some impossible meets.
Chris Lindstra:Get a little lunch door plug in there.
Chris Lindstra:Nothing wrong with that.
Wade Reed:Awesome.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:So I had a good conversation.
Chris Lindstra:I brought up the perils of hyperbolic based on venture capital.
Chris Lindstra:So the obvious segue from impossible meets to the deleterious effects of hyperbolic venture capital statements.
Wade Reed:Honestly, though, like, I see the very clear connection, and it doesn't really matter whether the person giving you money is venture capital or just someone with money.
Wade Reed:They're going to make a lot of very hyperbolic statements.
Wade Reed:Right?
Wade Reed:Like, about you and what you can do to a lot of people.
Wade Reed:It's like, oh, okay, yeah, here we go.
Chris Lindstra:So that was.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, that.
Chris Lindstra:That came up during the show, and that was very fun.
Wade Reed:I love Evan.
Wade Reed:Just.
Wade Reed:Yeah, yeah, that was.
Chris Lindstra:It was an absolute blast.
Wade Reed:It's so much fun.
Chris Lindstra:I'm hoping we're going to be able to do a lunch and.
Chris Lindstra:Or update maybe early next year with all of the new shows coming up.
Wade Reed:Awesome.
Wade Reed:Yeah, that'd be great.
Wade Reed:That'd be great.
Wade Reed:I was on the last one.
Wade Reed:That was the last time I was with Evan.
Chris Lindstra:Was.
Chris Lindstra:That was fun.
Wade Reed:Yeah, with you.
Wade Reed:That was great.
Wade Reed:That was great.
Chris Lindstra:And I was really happy we got to hijack it and talk about coffee for 20 minutes.
Wade Reed:It was so funny that he just straight up said, like, I.
Wade Reed:To keep myself from asking all the questions I want to ask.
Wade Reed:And I'm like, no, Nope.
Wade Reed:This is what we do.
Chris Lindstra:That's the fun part about having conversations, you know, like these is we don't know where things are going.
Chris Lindstra:And one of the great things about being the producer chair, and actually, you get to feel this today, too.
Chris Lindstra:I have no idea what we're talking about today.
Wade Reed:I'm so happy to not be in the driver's seat.
Wade Reed:Aaron.
Wade Reed:Like, I'm so grateful you Sent me this email.
Wade Reed:I'm just going to be honest.
Wade Reed:I said, looks great before I read it because I was like, I didn't have to make it.
Wade Reed:So it looks great.
Wade Reed:And I knew I'd, you know, look at it at some point.
Wade Reed:And we're going to find lots of things to talk.
Wade Reed:I have lots of things to talk about.
Wade Reed:I actually have one really specific point that I want to talk about that, you know, hold on.
Speaker B:Here's the other thing.
Speaker B:First of all, there is something about bringing people together that's going to come in here.
Wade Reed:Okay?
Speaker B:So I feel justified in getting you two tired boys into a room together and then us talking over coffee.
Chris Lindstra:The tire boys.
Speaker B:Yeah, the tire boys.
Speaker B:It sounds like a motorcycle club waiting to happen.
Speaker B:But I weren't sure if Wade was going to show up because Wade is busy, busy all the time.
Speaker B:I know he reads my text.
Speaker B:It's whether or not I feel valuable enough for him to respond at any given point.
Wade Reed:That is absolutely not how it works.
Wade Reed:But it's 100% how it works.
Speaker B:I know where I am on the totem pole of a pore.
Speaker B:And AM FM and everything else going on.
Chris Lindstra:Shout out to AM fm by the way.
Chris Lindstra:Shout out for first Friday.
Chris Lindstra:And it was a great scene that night.
Chris Lindstra:You know, it's exciting times.
Wade Reed:And Jocelyn Masiti is now up for best photographer.
Wade Reed:I saw City Magazine Best photographer.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Wade Reed:That was honest to goodness photos.
Wade Reed:Everyone.
Wade Reed:Go vote.
Wade Reed:Actually, all the photographers on there are amazing, including Lunch Door's own Richard Colon.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, we got Richard Colon and Rudy Favre, both behind the glass alumni.
Chris Lindstra:We actually have two.
Wade Reed:I wish I was wearing my Rudy designed hoodie.
Wade Reed:Oh, so good.
Chris Lindstra:And then we also have two shows on the best of list.
Chris Lindstra:Two.
Chris Lindstra:We have Anomaly Presents and the Departing Slash Evolving Refined Taste.
Wade Reed:Right.
Chris Lindstra:Departing revamping.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Chris Lindstra:So it's turning into Think global Act Local, hosted by Dario.
Wade Reed:Yeah, I actually just saw Dario.
Wade Reed:He just came into AM FM over the weekend and we talked about doing like some kind of comedy show there.
Wade Reed:But also on the podcast Beat your authentic life Pod is by Josiah Ball, who is now an AM FM barista.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, nice.
Wade Reed:Yeah, yeah.
Wade Reed:Our first ever, like, barista who was trained elsewhere and has experience anywhere but AM FM other than myself.
Wade Reed:So yeah, AM fm, man, that's a whole.
Wade Reed:We'll get there sometimes.
Speaker B:Wonderful.
Wade Reed:We will.
Speaker B:I mean, that's.
Speaker B:We can plug that in wherever.
Speaker B:Because we do need an update on your.
Chris Lindstra:I'm.
Speaker B:We've.
Chris Lindstra:We've got some ideas.
Chris Lindstra:So Wade and I are bouncing Ideas around.
Chris Lindstra:We, We.
Chris Lindstra:We're excited.
Chris Lindstra:I'm excited about storytelling, and Wade is thinking about storytelling.
Wade Reed:Yeah, I'm.
Wade Reed:I'm trying to do.
Speaker B:Does he have concepts of storytelling?
Wade Reed:An audio essay?
Wade Reed:I have what I have in mind.
Chris Lindstra:And I'm thinking more of a this is my life.
Chris Lindstra:So we're going to figure something out, but I'm excited about the opportunity to tell the story of something like that in a different way.
Chris Lindstra: through here at some point in: Wade Reed:No doubt.
Wade Reed:No doubt.
Wade Reed:So there's no distance right now.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Wade Reed:I can't get to take a step back long enough to be like, this is what it is.
Wade Reed:Yeah, I don't know what it is yet.
Wade Reed:And it just keeps getting bigger.
Chris Lindstra:So, Aaron, how's the control of the show going?
Speaker B:Oh, I mean, you know, here's the thing with you guys is I'm not what you consider an alpha male.
Speaker B:If there's a fight going on, I'm not going to step in.
Speaker B:I'm going to wait for the other guys to go at it first, and then I'll finish everything.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Hey, that could be a shout out to punches and popcorn.
Speaker B:Get me on.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:Come at me, dude.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, they're starting to record again, so it's a good time for that.
Chris Lindstra:They're just finishing Ninja November right now.
Wade Reed:Ninja November.
Wade Reed:I think they do.
Speaker B:They did American Ninja.
Speaker B:I got to listen to that one.
Chris Lindstra:They're doing the entire run and they all sound awful and exciting.
Wade Reed:It looked terrible.
Wade Reed:Just terrible.
Speaker B:All right.
Wade Reed:Do you think there's any chance they'll do three Ninjas?
Chris Lindstra:Oh, I wouldn't be shocked.
Wade Reed:Have such fond memories.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, you ask.
Chris Lindstra:They're going to show up, dude.
Wade Reed:That's the one we should do.
Speaker B:Okay, that message is going out.
Wade Reed:Find the coffee connection there and you know, it'll be a crossover.
Wade Reed:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Co Ferment podcast.
Speaker B:If aol.
Chris Lindstra:That's what we're going to call the crossovers lunch at our Co Ferment.
Chris Lindstra:I mean, we all say we don't qualify for awards.
Wade Reed:Not in Panama.
Wade Reed:I was not in Panama.
Speaker B:And that's the segue into coffee.
Speaker B:Right.
Chris Lindstra:I got it for you.
Wade Reed:Let's.
Speaker B:So let's jump into Panama here.
Speaker B:Wade, did you look at all at that last link there about, oh, Gesha has a thing going on in Panama?
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Speaker B:What do you.
Speaker B:What do you think about this whole article on Perfect Daily Grind about Gesha in Panama?
Speaker B:Do you have any thoughts?
Chris Lindstra:Do you have.
Chris Lindstra:Do you have a little Prior.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:So I was looking for.
Wade Reed:There's one bit that I was.
Speaker B:For those of you not reading it.
Chris Lindstra:While Wade's perusing, give me some Cliff Notes.
Speaker B:This is coming off of.
Speaker B:First of all, the whole episode was supposed to be a revisit to a lot of things we've talked about before.
Speaker B:We got massively sidetracked into everything else here.
Speaker B:So, you know, this is the beta male coming in, wrangling everything again.
Speaker B:But we talked about how the Panama Board of Coffee, or the board who runs the Best of Panama there, Specialty.
Wade Reed:Coffee association of Panama.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Had put a bunch of regulations on coffees that could be entered and considered for this award there.
Speaker B:One of the main things that they brought was that CO ferments and other newer processing methods were going to rule out certain coffees here.
Speaker B:So when this article came up, it's on perfect daily grind.
Speaker B:It's titled, it's from October 29th, just how much diversity is there within Gesha and Panama?
Speaker B:So I thought this was going to relate directly to that ruling that came out there.
Speaker B:Far be it for me to assume that, you know, two companies would be in sync with each other at all and finding that this is all about the diversity of GESHA and how it became rooted in Panama and nothing related to just the fact that it can be that it's synonymous with Panama and best of Panama there.
Wade Reed:Yeah, it's really.
Wade Reed:It is fascinating.
Wade Reed: ly getting it in Panama above: Wade Reed:I was really fascinated by a section about.
Wade Reed:Do you remember the section on river flow fermentation that was on my list?
Wade Reed:It's so wild.
Speaker B:And the science is going to come out here.
Wade Reed:All right, so this is.
Speaker B:This is the whole relation to this ruling about Best of Panama.
Speaker B:Right, was that the GESHA was supposed to be pure Panama.
Wade Reed:Right, Right.
Speaker B:It's pure to Panama.
Speaker B:You can't alter it.
Speaker B:That was the whole point that the ruling was based on.
Wade Reed:Well, yeah, it's.
Wade Reed:It somehow exemplifies the terroir of Panama.
Wade Reed:And it's really because it was planted in Panama that it became what it became.
Wade Reed:And so, like, yeah, they became very, very protective of what it means to grow gesha in Panama.
Wade Reed:Right.
Wade Reed:So, you know, then the CO ferments apparently change that too much, but this doesn't.
Wade Reed: e we experimented with during: Wade Reed:The Altier team says we measured how temperature impacts bacterial activity and how heat transfers differently in liquid compared to air.
Wade Reed:To achieve this, we anaerobically fermented fresh cherries and sealed silage plastic bags under running water.
Speaker B:So a.k.a.
Speaker B:a river.
Wade Reed:River flow fermentation.
Speaker B:Okay, first of all, can we imagine hiking through Panama, coming up to a river and seeing bags of probably gross looking fruit ish things sitting in the river?
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:Like bags of what would look probably like waste compost.
Wade Reed:Like you wouldn't necessarily know looking at it that it's coffee.
Wade Reed:That's.
Wade Reed:That wouldn't be your first thought.
Speaker B:Not at all.
Wade Reed:So I find it really fascinating that thermal shocks were included in the SEAPS ban because how is this not a thermal shock?
Speaker B:It's this.
Wade Reed:We're literally.
Wade Reed:We want to know what heat does to the process.
Wade Reed:Like is it literally just if it gets too hot too quickly or if it gets too cold too quickly?
Wade Reed:It reminds me so much of the, the, the black panther geisha, the Proud Mary.
Wade Reed:The one that Proud Mary brought in because theirs was, you know, in a dark room or whatever.
Wade Reed:It was something with light.
Wade Reed:Right.
Wade Reed:And I've since learned that black honey processed coffees, you have to cover them from sunlight.
Wade Reed:So that's actually pretty standard.
Wade Reed:I.
Wade Reed:Yeah, because.
Wade Reed:Because the sunlight, it does something to accelerate one of the anaerobic processes.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:And it over sours and this, that and the other.
Wade Reed:So because I have now my second black honey processed coffee on AT AM fm, the one I brought you tonight.
Chris Lindstra:I'm excited to try it.
Wade Reed:Yeah, I've had it before, I've brought it in before.
Wade Reed:But this year's lot is so wild anyway that to say like if a honey process method's okay, requiring darkness, requiring this temperature, requiring that, you know, this, that the other, all the specs, like where is a meaningful line and if you can't draw a meaningful line, why are you drawing a line?
Speaker B:Well, and I think that's the thing that I came back to and what I keep coming back to with this is somebody decided they needed to make a ruling and have power here.
Wade Reed:It seems so arbitrary.
Speaker B:It's very arbitrary.
Speaker B:It's very absurd when you look at it.
Speaker B:Especially this entire article is centering around all of the things that they're doing to promote Panama Coffee.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, it sounds a lot like.
Chris Lindstra:It sounds a lot of protectionism and isolating new producers and trying to keep the money where it is with the Producers that are already doing it, they already made the investments.
Chris Lindstra:I mean, this is very copyright.
Chris Lindstra:Very, you know, very, you know, copyright protection kind of thing.
Wade Reed:That kind of thing.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, yeah, that's really what it is.
Chris Lindstra:Like, they're just protecting the people who already made the investments.
Chris Lindstra:And it seems like this is, like.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, they're allowed to do the.
Chris Lindstra:Some of the things.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, but not new people.
Wade Reed:Right.
Chris Lindstra:Well.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:And that's the thing.
Speaker B:The best of Panama was all producers in Panama, if I'm not mistaken there by this.
Wade Reed:Oh, yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:And so why is it that certain producers are gonna get.
Speaker B:That gets allowed to do this and others are not?
Wade Reed:That gets a little bit fuzzy because they might be producers in Panama, but what you find is a lot of them have German names, so this is pretty common in Guatemala, too.
Wade Reed:So, like, one of the main.
Wade Reed:One of the first families to ever plant gesha and bring it to the United States and sell it to roasters and make it famous.
Wade Reed:Their name is Hartman, and they're growing coffee in Panama.
Wade Reed:So, like, it does harken back to that colonial past we've talked about before.
Wade Reed:And, like, how.
Wade Reed:How just messy the coffee supply chain is.
Wade Reed:And so, like, I honestly, I don't mean to always, like, ring the racism bell, but, like, global anything just tends to find its way to that bell, so.
Chris Lindstra:Well, and thankfully, what we can say for sure is that, you know, the migration of Germans across South America was certainly something that never had any of those backgrounds, so no problems.
Speaker B:And I'm assuming that the Hartmans don't own the La Esmeralda, you know, plot there.
Wade Reed:No, it's not.
Wade Reed:It's not Esmeralda, but it.
Wade Reed:But it was, like, kind of the one that was the one before, you know, the Esmeralda took.
Wade Reed:Before the CoE competitions, made Esmeralda famous, before Esmeralda became.
Wade Reed:But.
Wade Reed:And I can't think of the family name off the top of my head, but Esmeralda and Black Jaguar.
Wade Reed:They're both, like, very European names of the families.
Wade Reed:And I'm not here to criticize those families.
Wade Reed:And I don't know if, you know, those.
Wade Reed:Maybe the kids of the family grew up in Panama, married Panamanian national.
Wade Reed:I have no idea.
Wade Reed:But what I am here to say is that when you live in a Central American country and you have a.
Wade Reed:You have a European last name, I kind of know what story led you to prominence or at least, sure, I have, you know, like, 80% of it.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:Yes.
Wade Reed:Yeah, I would say that'd be my judgment, but Yeah, I think it's fascinating.
Wade Reed:I think, like, if you see an arbitrary decision and you have reason to believe it's because moneyed interests with a kind of racially tinged background made that decision.
Wade Reed:Here we are, you know, obviously, we're not immune in coffee.
Wade Reed:We've never been.
Wade Reed:And it's.
Wade Reed:It's just.
Wade Reed:It's interesting to see, and it's frustrating because it's like, I would so much rather if these new producers and their river flow fermentations and all their fun stuff they want to do could just get highlighted and just make them money, too.
Speaker B:For sure.
Wade Reed:That'd be great.
Wade Reed:I'd be fine with that.
Wade Reed:But.
Speaker B:Well, and this might be one little thing.
Speaker B:Here we explore the idea when we first talked about thermoshock and all these coal ferments that these producers needed to put money into their facilities there to provide the technology they needed to control these beds or these vats as they might be, you know, to keep constant temperatures.
Wade Reed:Right.
Speaker B:If river flow can do that without the money expenditure.
Speaker B:Yeah, that might be an in.
Wade Reed:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Wade Reed:I think it's great.
Wade Reed:And I'm sure that people who have money and who have spent money think it's cheating.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Wade Reed:And in a way, this is so similar to the Starbucks conversation because it's people who kind of started.
Wade Reed:Were like.
Wade Reed:Were like disruptors and first movers in an industry and who made a positive impact looking at kind of what's going on now and going like, that's not fair, or we want to be more like that, or, you know, or like, we can only compete in this marketplace if we can.
Wade Reed:If we can box them out.
Speaker B:Right.
Wade Reed:So I think we need to move on to Starbucks because that's going to be the longer conversation.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, and wait, wait one second.
Chris Lindstra:Let me see if this works.
Speaker B:Now you know the rest of the story.
Speaker B:What is that from?
Speaker B:Perfect.
Chris Lindstra:It's from Paul Harvey, famous radio man.
Chris Lindstra:It was his most famous homespun.
Chris Lindstra:The Rest of the Story.
Chris Lindstra:It was my favorite radio segment as a kid.
Chris Lindstra:And that's his tag.
Wade Reed:Yeah, totally.
Wade Reed:No, I remember that.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:So go ahead.
Speaker B:Oh, gosh, I'm getting punchy.
Wade Reed:It's a long day.
Speaker B:Oh, he's.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He's getting loopy.
Speaker B:Yep, kicking in.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:All right, so this.
Speaker B:This idea about this whole Starbucks stuff came up on my phone.
Speaker B:So I always gotta tell this.
Speaker B:My clickbait algorithm on my phone is so prime.
Speaker B:I open up the Chrome app and all those clickbait things that pop up.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I literally want to read like every single one now.
Wade Reed:Wow.
Chris Lindstra:It does, really?
Wade Reed:They've got you figured out.
Chris Lindstra:Mine's great.
Chris Lindstra:I get like the pro wrestling rumors of the day.
Chris Lindstra:I get tech updates.
Chris Lindstra:I get food and drink.
Chris Lindstra:I get.
Chris Lindstra:It's really disparate and weird and it's like, oh yeah, the hit rate's really good.
Speaker B:I mean I'm getting watch investment charts and Starbucks ads and other crazy things.
Wade Reed:Like that, but I'm gonna run an ad and see how long it takes for you guys.
Wade Reed:Like, the funny thing about Google is they've been trying to throw me $500 for like four years.
Speaker B:Really?
Wade Reed:Yeah, yeah.
Wade Reed:They're like, you have a 500 ad?
Wade Reed:Because I do my domain through Google anyway.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:So I wonder how long it would take.
Speaker B:That'd be a great test, honestly, to see if it could even get to us.
Wade Reed:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Because I don't.
Speaker B:I don't Google amp AM fm.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker B:I know it's there.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Speaker B:If I need it, I go to the Instagram.
Speaker B:So if the Instagram can talk on my phone to whatever.
Speaker B:Like possibly.
Wade Reed:They're always talking.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:But they're talking right now.
Wade Reed:Everything we've said.
Speaker B:So Clickbait on Starbucks.
Speaker B:I was getting like 4 to 5, you know, these crappy websites that run like the short stories.
Speaker B:And I had like 20 tabs open on my phone.
Speaker B:I sat down, I started reading them.
Speaker B:It was all about how Starbucks is losing profit now.
Speaker B:And losing profit probably being a relative term for them.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:Not growing at the rate that they wish to grow.
Speaker B:Right.
Chris Lindstra:Which for stocks is the same as dying.
Speaker B:Right.
Chris Lindstra:Is you're not making more profit year over year, every year, forever.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Laxman Nara.
Speaker B:Nara Seaman was the old guy in charge there.
Speaker B:Under him, Starbucks only gained 4% over the last year.
Speaker B:So that was the impetus to the change here.
Speaker B:And they brought in Nicole.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, Brian Nicole of Chipotle.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, I saw that.
Speaker B:Which I thought was an interesting connection there.
Wade Reed:Very funny.
Chris Lindstra:So now when you go in and buy a 12 ounce cup of coffee, sometimes you're going to get 8 ounces and sometimes you're going to get 32 ounces.
Wade Reed:Works.
Wade Reed:I mean like it's.
Wade Reed:Well, your coffee's at the bottom of the bag.
Wade Reed:Well, when they bring in the five guys CEO next.
Speaker B:Well, and if you're going to.
Speaker B:And if you're going to Chipotle, just.
Chris Lindstra:Spill beans on the outside of the cup.
Speaker B:The refresher drinks at Chipotle are going to be replaced by bottled frappuccinos.
Chris Lindstra:Now could be good.
Chris Lindstra:I like that.
Wade Reed:Could be worse.
Speaker B:Could be worse.
Speaker B:Apparently it's been up 38% since he took over though.
Speaker B:So few numbers I pulled there.
Speaker B:Sounds good.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Wade Reed:Something, right.
Chris Lindstra:I'll take 38% more everything.
Speaker B:The interesting part here was that most of the articles center around the idea of bringing Starbucks back.
Speaker B:And as the phrase comes into my head, making Starbucks great again, I mean.
Chris Lindstra:They'Re changing the color of their hats.
Speaker B:Maybe red with a ultra red.
Wade Reed:Can we just pause for a second?
Wade Reed:An actual Starbucks CEO once ran for president.
Wade Reed:Like that actually happened.
Wade Reed:Like Howard Schultz really did that.
Wade Reed:Right.
Wade Reed: In: Chris Lindstra:Wow.
Wade Reed:Right?
Chris Lindstra:Geez.
Chris Lindstra:I can't.
Chris Lindstra:I completely forgot that that happened.
Wade Reed:And he poured a ton of money in the late primary states and got like one electoral vote and sounds a lot like one delegate.
Chris Lindstra:Sounds very Bloomberg esque.
Wade Reed:It was, it was very Bloomberg.
Wade Reed:It was very like.
Wade Reed:I mean, it's apparently very Starbucks to invest in all the wrong things.
Wade Reed:Right.
Wade Reed:This is what we're learning.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, and that's, and that's essentially what I picked up here, is that they, they have this drive for profit.
Speaker B:Like it's an innate drive for profit and if you can't see it, you're blind.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:One of the.
Speaker B:Now after this, I went on Netflix randomly and what pops up?
Speaker B:A docu series on Starbucks.
Wade Reed:Okay.
Speaker B:It's called where it is Unfiltered.
Speaker B:It's called Unfiltered.
Speaker B:It's on Netflix.
Speaker B:It's fascinating.
Speaker B:It goes from the beginning of Starbucks and how they started and what they were going to do to.
Speaker B:Throughout their growth process and their mindsets and all this other stuff.
Speaker B:And it's weird because it's mixed with this idea of we want to be the coffee shop.
Speaker B:Like everybody's gone to a coffee shop.
Speaker B:They all love the coffee shop, but they're Starbucks now.
Speaker B:And so they want to maximize that profit.
Speaker B:And so what can they do to do that?
Speaker B:Now coming back to what they're doing, here's the phrase that came out.
Speaker B:We want to reestablish the brand as the community coffee house is what they're going for.
Chris Lindstra:No, they're not.
Speaker B:One of the.
Speaker B:Well, and this was going to be.
Speaker B:And the other thing that came up was he kept saying something about this.
Speaker B:We're going to bring back the black Sharpie gives a shit.
Wade Reed:That was what makes Community.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, obviously, I mean, obviously also like calling out the Sharpie Corporation.
Chris Lindstra:That is almost definitely a corporate tie in.
Chris Lindstra:There's got to be money involved.
Wade Reed:Somebody.
Wade Reed:Yeah, somebody has.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:When Somebody like that makes a statement.
Chris Lindstra:There's always money.
Speaker B:And there was, there was literally somewhere, it might have been an interview that came up where he said, yeah, we're going to need like something like 15 million Sharpies.
Speaker B:We'll get them.
Speaker B:And like, I thought Bring Back the Sharpie was like, you know, you know, some sort of imagery for how they're going to, you know, bring back the personality to the coffee cups and things like that.
Wade Reed:Writing your name on a coffee cup, that was what they were doing wrong.
Chris Lindstra:Correctly.
Wade Reed:Yeah, they were printing it.
Wade Reed:That's what they were.
Wade Reed:That's what they were doing.
Chris Lindstra:That's the difference.
Wade Reed:That's what they got wrong.
Wade Reed:So that we don't feel like you see us when you print our name in our drink.
Chris Lindstra:So now.
Chris Lindstra:Now that when they get in.
Chris Lindstra:Now that when they get an online order, they're going to manually write it on the cup and ruin the entire flow.
Chris Lindstra:And turning baristas into robots.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:So.
Wade Reed:Well, now they're robots who have to read human language.
Wade Reed:So that's going to make community.
Chris Lindstra:Well, you know, so, you know, I saw the look on your face.
Chris Lindstra:I was more saying that, like, because the frequency of online orders has now become such a dominant part of that.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, of going to a Starbucks that they don't have time to be people anymore.
Chris Lindstra:They're just running all day.
Speaker B:You know what's funny is, you know, I still do go to Starbucks periodically and I always online order.
Speaker B:Like, I don't want to wait in line between all those people.
Speaker B:I'm guilty of that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:If I want to wait, I'm going to go to AM fm.
Wade Reed:Dude, you don't wait that long.
Speaker B:Well, let me.
Wade Reed:I could call someone else out.
Wade Reed:I could call out another if you.
Chris Lindstra:Wanted to wait around.
Speaker B:That's literally what I meant.
Speaker B:So sorry for the way that came out.
Speaker B:This is the story of my life, by the way.
Speaker B:People completely misunderstanding.
Chris Lindstra:Side note, this is one of the least other half.
Chris Lindstra:Other half beers I've ever tried.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:So as a daydream, it does not overdo it on the oat cream vibe.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, it's actually.
Chris Lindstra:Is this a session?
Wade Reed:Not.
Wade Reed:No.
Wade Reed:Oh, no, no, no.
Wade Reed:This is like a six or six and a half.
Chris Lindstra:Holy cow.
Chris Lindstra:Because it almost plays light like a session.
Chris Lindstra:So we, we usually have during these later night recordings.
Chris Lindstra:Usually something.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, it's a six.
Chris Lindstra:It plays very light.
Wade Reed:I know.
Chris Lindstra:Very bouncy.
Chris Lindstra:It's not thick.
Wade Reed:I think it's mosaic that makes the hop.
Wade Reed:You know, like it.
Wade Reed:It hits that really bright citrusy it's.
Chris Lindstra:Got that, you know, it's got some little bit of armpit funk to it, a little bit of mango.
Chris Lindstra:It's very pleasant.
Wade Reed:I.
Wade Reed:I feel like the daydreams usually are sugar bombs, and that's usually what I'm trying to do is pound a sugar bomb when I get a daydream.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:But.
Wade Reed:But this one is.
Wade Reed:It's.
Wade Reed:It's.
Wade Reed:It's quite drinkable.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, it's nice and clean.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:Cool.
Chris Lindstra:Sorry.
Wade Reed:So with Starbucks.
Speaker B:Swell.
Wade Reed:What?
Wade Reed:Let me ask you, as someone who goes to a Starbucks now.
Wade Reed:So let me tell you, the last time I was like a Starbucks person was when I lived in Chicago.
Speaker B:Sure.
Wade Reed: I left Chicago in: Wade Reed:I started working in coffee in Chicago.
Wade Reed:So it was actually way before that there was a Starbucks right off the train that I would get off of when I was going to school.
Wade Reed:And so that's where I would.
Wade Reed:That's where I would get coffee.
Wade Reed:That was the only.
Wade Reed:Maybe not the only, but the Starbucks I was the most regular at.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Wade Reed:Kind of in my history.
Wade Reed:So that was convenience.
Wade Reed:That was speed.
Wade Reed:That was.
Wade Reed:I've got to get to class.
Wade Reed:I spent all night studying.
Wade Reed:That was, you know, all the.
Wade Reed:Every reason to drink that coffee.
Wade Reed:Except the coffee.
Wade Reed:Every reason to drink that coffee, but not, like for community.
Wade Reed:I guess what I'm getting at is when was Starbucks a third place?
Speaker B:When was literally what I had written down here was what Starbucks ever a third place?
Wade Reed:Was it?
Wade Reed:No.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:So, like, like, did it ever achieve.
Speaker B:What it wanted to?
Chris Lindstra:Yes, I mean, I think definitively so.
Chris Lindstra: ime period, I'd say maybe pre: Chris Lindstra:This was before it became the extremes of people working there.
Chris Lindstra:Right.
Chris Lindstra:But this was where people had interviews.
Chris Lindstra:This is where people had, like, before Panera was the place where you had a devastating conversation with a relative.
Chris Lindstra:Starbucks Was that.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, 100%.
Wade Reed:Wow.
Chris Lindstra:Start.
Chris Lindstra:Panera is one of those places where you.
Chris Lindstra:If you want to see depressing conversations happen, great place to go see that.
Wade Reed:Wow.
Wade Reed:I don't.
Chris Lindstra:Because it's.
Chris Lindstra:Well, it's got a lot of, like, cloistered spots.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:So it has, like, separate areas and it's very neutral.
Chris Lindstra:I mean, what's more neutral than a Panera bread?
Wade Reed:Sure.
Speaker B:White bread.
Chris Lindstra:It's tan from top to bottom.
Chris Lindstra:The food is tan.
Chris Lindstra:It's.
Chris Lindstra:It's just a very tan place.
Wade Reed:It's just a beige flag in a strip mall.
Chris Lindstra:So I'm really going after corporations.
Speaker B:You are?
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:But I think it really was a Place where people did meet, they did hang out.
Chris Lindstra: And it was probably pre: Speaker B:But here's my thing with that.
Speaker B:When I think about third places that I frequented before that was a term in Rochester, it was Java's.
Speaker B:Then we had a spot coffee for a little bit.
Speaker B:And that was a spot I went to a lot.
Speaker B:And then I went to college and there were other coffee houses.
Speaker B:Sundays for me were a time that I always had to get out of the house to go finish studying before Monday showed up.
Speaker B:And all of the independent places were always closed.
Wade Reed:Okay.
Speaker B:And so I would go, I get up and I'd be like, oh, Starbucks is open, let me go check.
Speaker B:Nope, they close at like 4 or 5.
Speaker B:So they were always like, if it's an availability spot for me to start with.
Speaker B:And the most time I ever actually spent at one was when it opened up down the road from the high school.
Speaker B:So I grew up in Brighton.
Speaker B:Twelve Corners was one of the first Starbucks I ever saw.
Speaker B:And I think it was fairly early in their development there.
Wade Reed:But the one that's still there, is.
Speaker B:It still actually there?
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But I can't think of a time that I would have chosen to go there over another spot if it wasn't that convenient.
Wade Reed:Yes.
Wade Reed:Like you said, fourth or fifth place.
Wade Reed:Yeah, literally.
Chris Lindstra:Well, I think at the time it was.
Chris Lindstra:I think we're also coming at it from a.
Chris Lindstra:Hey, we want specific character for a lot of places.
Chris Lindstra:The neutrality of.
Chris Lindstra:The reason I was joking about Panera is people.
Chris Lindstra:The neutrality of the place is part of that benefit where, sure, it's a place where you spend the time, but it's.
Chris Lindstra:The place is the facilitation of that.
Chris Lindstra:It doesn't add much itself.
Chris Lindstra:It's neutral.
Chris Lindstra:For that is in many ways what people want.
Chris Lindstra:They want a place where there's activity, they want some buzz, they want something going on, but they don't really want to pay attention to anything around them.
Chris Lindstra:And that's part of what some people see as the benefit of spending time there because it's where you meet people, it's where you might even see somebody.
Chris Lindstra:But the place isn't generating as much as it.
Chris Lindstra:As it is just a location you can be and depend on see.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:And that's part of what I looked at with that is part of the appeal of going to coffee shops and getting into coffee as an enthusiast as much was getting to see that same barista at, you know, Ugly Duck or Joe Bean at the very least.
Speaker B:If I had been isolated all day from not being able to see people or do anything.
Speaker B:I know that I could go get a cup of coffee at Joe Bean, say hi to somebody who would recognize me, and I could pretend in my head they were friends.
Speaker B:You know, before, like, we were actually were friends.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:Like, and that's the appeal of those other places.
Chris Lindstra:But no, I mean legitimately.
Chris Lindstra:Like, I.
Chris Lindstra:Like when we're talking about third places.
Chris Lindstra:Like, I was.
Chris Lindstra:I was lost for a year or two years because that was such a default for me to go there on a Friday night where Joe being on a Thursday or Friday night.
Chris Lindstra:It was such a default to me.
Chris Lindstra:It was such part of my routine that I was.
Chris Lindstra:I mean, to be honest, like, it's still.
Chris Lindstra:Like, it still affects the way I go out because I don't have a place.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Chris Lindstra:To go to.
Chris Lindstra:There was always.
Chris Lindstra:Like, that would start.
Wade Reed:Like, we would.
Wade Reed:We would all still go to University Jobin.
Wade Reed:Like, even after I left Jobe and even after fifth frame was up and running, like, University Jobin was like, it was so authentically a third place.
Wade Reed:And I think, like, it was something that you said, Chris, that hit me.
Wade Reed:You know, it's like where you go to see people and the places facilitation.
Wade Reed:I'm like, oh, that is so Ugly Duck right now.
Wade Reed:Like, you see everyone.
Wade Reed:Like, everyone within, you know, two circles of any Lunch Door podcast, you're so likely to see them.
Chris Lindstra:Like, I realized, like, how many of the people on the network I met for the first time at Ugly Duck.
Chris Lindstra:Like, both Richard and Quadra, I met at Ugly Duck.
Chris Lindstra:Randomly.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, the first time.
Chris Lindstra:Randomly.
Chris Lindstra:And then on purpose.
Chris Lindstra:Was there.
Chris Lindstra:Last time I was there, I saw your friend.
Chris Lindstra:Your friend and my friend John Cannon.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:There.
Chris Lindstra:And we, you know, we'd been meaning to talk for a while, and he's like, yeah, I'm going on tour to Philadelphia.
Chris Lindstra:Like, oh, yeah.
Chris Lindstra:God, you're a world's touring guy now.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Chris Lindstra:Seriously.
Speaker B:China.
Chris Lindstra:So weird.
Wade Reed:I was China.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, exactly.
Chris Lindstra:And.
Chris Lindstra:And I'm like, hey, like, come on.
Chris Lindstra:The new music show on the network.
Wade Reed:Oh, yeah, definitely.
Chris Lindstra:He's like, yeah, that would be a blast.
Chris Lindstra:Like.
Chris Lindstra:Like, what an amazing thing.
Chris Lindstra:Like, and I would have run into eventually.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:But I get to see him there, and it's a different interaction.
Chris Lindstra:And what we're talking about is how we think of a third place, which is.
Chris Lindstra:It's facilitating those things happening.
Chris Lindstra:Not just a place for things to happen.
Chris Lindstra:To meet.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Chris Lindstra:Those things.
Chris Lindstra:It's making those Things happen just from the confluence of people.
Chris Lindstra:Starbucks is just that.
Chris Lindstra:Everybody was there.
Chris Lindstra:And maybe it didn't facilitate the random thing, but it was the place that was the default first date place.
Chris Lindstra:It was the default interview place, the default work from not home place.
Speaker B:But that doesn't make it a third place.
Speaker B:It makes it a popular place.
Chris Lindstra:Well, is a third place where you spend most of your time or is it that other extra level?
Speaker B:I was always under the impression that the whole idea of the third place was, like you said, like a Joe Bean, where Friday night I could know that I was going to go down there.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:Jim was going to be there.
Speaker B:He was either going to be drinking at the bar or he was going to be working the bar.
Speaker B:You know, Chris was probably going to roll in, you know, after, you know, seven or eight, you know, and he might stay, he might not stay.
Chris Lindstra:Yep.
Wade Reed:You guys were talking about Cheers and.
Speaker B:Then here was a.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Wade Reed:You're describing Cheers.
Speaker B:Cheers is a perfect third place.
Chris Lindstra:Although it really does.
Chris Lindstra:It really does matter how they say your name when you walk into the place.
Chris Lindstra:And if they're saying it under their breath.
Wade Reed:Aaron.
Wade Reed:Exactly.
Speaker B:Wade's over in the corner.
Wade Reed:Exactly.
Speaker B:Now, who is this girl?
Speaker B:There was a.
Speaker B:There was a customer who came into Jobean.
Speaker B:And what was her name?
Speaker B:I'll have to find it later.
Chris Lindstra:I'm going to read the definition for a second.
Chris Lindstra:So this is from one of the books that defined this.
Chris Lindstra:So the paragraph was.
Chris Lindstra:They called the first place the home and the people the person lives with.
Chris Lindstra:So it's also defining the people.
Chris Lindstra:And that's where I think is the first place.
Speaker B:That's where we're coming from, is the.
Wade Reed:First place in people being correlated.
Chris Lindstra:Second place is the workplace where people may actually spend most of their waking time and they're around people, but they're not necessarily your chosen people.
Chris Lindstra:Third places that are anchors of community life and facilitate and foster broader, more creative interaction.
Chris Lindstra:In other words, your third place is where you relax in public, where you encounter familiar faces and make new acquaintances.
Chris Lindstra:I think it covers depending on who you are and when you.
Chris Lindstra:What age you are.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:That.
Chris Lindstra:It covers two thirds of what I would call those qualifications.
Wade Reed:You think Starbucks does.
Wade Reed:Yes, Starbucks hits two thirds.
Wade Reed:Two of the three.
Chris Lindstra:It definitively doesn't do the third.
Wade Reed:Okay.
Chris Lindstra:Which is anchor of community.
Chris Lindstra:Well, anchor kind of.
Chris Lindstra:But facilitate and foster broader, more creative interaction.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, that's the thing.
Chris Lindstra:It can't do because.
Chris Lindstra:Because it isn't that.
Speaker B:Because either of you.
Speaker B:If we had been going to A Starbucks.
Speaker B:And even if we're going to the same Starbucks, there's no way this relationship would have formed.
Chris Lindstra:Correct.
Speaker B:And so that, for me, is the thing.
Speaker B:You might see a person, but it's definitely going to be passing.
Speaker B:And there's no way at a Starbucks, even in the past, I would argue that if I was sitting, that anybody I saw frequently would stop long enough to have, like, any sort of real conversation, even if it was the continual.
Speaker B:Hey, how are you?
Speaker B:Oh, this is, you know, what I did for lunch, you know, that wasn't happening.
Speaker B:It was the plate.
Speaker B:Hey, how are you?
Speaker B:All right, I'll see you on the way out.
Speaker B:And so that's, for me, is like, how did they think this was going to happen?
Speaker B:Because here's one of the other things that they were looking at with their whole business model, wanting to come back here.
Speaker B:They have over 300 stores in New York City alone.
Speaker B:Half of them are within eyesight of each other.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so you're already disrupting your own desire there to be a third place, because it's all about convenience.
Chris Lindstra:Well, and I think the big.
Chris Lindstra:The big difference with.
Chris Lindstra:When we're talking about those interactions.
Chris Lindstra:Right.
Chris Lindstra:You're defining how you go across that.
Chris Lindstra:I think the other thing that the real authentic third place does is it removes part of a barrier.
Chris Lindstra:Because if, let's say we walk into Ugly Duck, and we've never met, but maybe we interacted online, and that is an opening.
Chris Lindstra:But there's something about just knowing that, oh, you're here, that means that barriers just a little lower.
Speaker B:Yes.
Chris Lindstra:That I feel like we know something about each other, that we're here, and it lowers that just that little bit that maybe removes that.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, I'm nervous.
Chris Lindstra:I don't want to meet this person for the first time.
Wade Reed:And I.
Wade Reed:I feel like this is gonna sound weird at somewhere like Ugly Duck.
Wade Reed:The way that's manifested for me is just knowing that, like, I know these baristas fairly well.
Wade Reed:I see them every week, you know, and they're cool with this person.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Wade Reed:So that person, like, there's an automatic.
Wade Reed:Like.
Wade Reed:Like, it's almost like they're recommending.
Wade Reed:You know, it's like the algorithm recommending a friend.
Wade Reed:Right.
Speaker B:It's not the 5 degree.
Speaker B:It's the 5 degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, you know these people.
Speaker B:And so you have an in.
Speaker B:They've unofficially vouched for this person.
Wade Reed:Yeah, exactly.
Wade Reed:Exactly.
Wade Reed:Without.
Wade Reed:Without ever saying, like, without ever introducing us.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Wade Reed:I know that if, like, this person's in the Space.
Wade Reed:And Bob is cool with them.
Wade Reed:Like, then I'm gonna more than likely be.
Wade Reed:Be okay to, like, interact with them.
Speaker B:Also, by the way, Bob shaved everything.
Speaker B:His beard is gone.
Chris Lindstra:Well, also, amazing matching outfit to the new coffee.
Chris Lindstra:And, like, their most recent Instagram post.
Wade Reed:Pretty funny.
Chris Lindstra:It was a really good matching.
Wade Reed:That was pretty fun.
Chris Lindstra:I like that a lot.
Speaker B:So here's the question.
Speaker B:They're reorganizing, Right.
Speaker B:Is it possible for Starbucks to hit this status that they seem to be, on paper, wanting?
Wade Reed:So I did a little bit of digging here, because this sounded so familiar to me.
Wade Reed:And again, I have to go back to the last time.
Wade Reed:Like, I was really, like, a Starbucks person.
Wade Reed: But do you remember in: Speaker B:Yes, I remember that.
Wade Reed:Coffee's our passion, and we have.
Wade Reed:And, like, if you were in the industry, you're like, this is such a stunt.
Wade Reed:And, like, so many independent shops that I know were just miserable that day because they just got flooded with people who couldn't go to Starbucks and who didn't understand what they were trying to do.
Wade Reed:And it just seems to me that within this model, like, you have to do this every, like, 10 to 15 years where you have to say, like.
Speaker B:You have to recoil.
Wade Reed:We're off track.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Wade Reed:And we got to get back on track.
Wade Reed:And you have to kind of stunt, you know, you have to put that out there as, like, our identity now is.
Wade Reed:And it's.
Wade Reed: since, you know, that time in: Chris Lindstra:I'm sure they've had even more of them in between.
Wade Reed:Their.
Wade Reed:Their stock price is like, I mean, 10x at least.
Chris Lindstra:I think that's.
Chris Lindstra:The other thing is, like, you know, I.
Chris Lindstra:I think for.
Chris Lindstra:For better or worse, we live on a very similar pessimistic level when it comes to all those things where it's like, all right, well, if I.
Chris Lindstra:If I know stock bump tactics, it seems like a stock bump tactic to me.
Wade Reed:Yep.
Speaker B:So here's some of the other things they said, and I'm curious if this will happen.
Speaker B:They said that they are going to simplify their menu, that it's overly complicated.
Speaker B:Yes, it is.
Speaker B:Here is.
Chris Lindstra:The customers are unnecessarily complicated.
Speaker B:We'll go there, Chris.
Speaker B:Let's go there.
Speaker B:Well, let's see.
Speaker B:Are there 89,000 variations of customers?
Speaker B:Because that apparently is on tape in that documentary about how many variations of drinks you make?
Chris Lindstra:Do they.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, God.
Wade Reed:89,000.
Wade Reed:Yeah, I believe it.
Chris Lindstra:That's insane.
Chris Lindstra:I mean, it's at least 10 too many.
Speaker B:What's the what.
Speaker B:How many variations at Ugly Duck could you make?
Speaker B:How many could you make?
Speaker B:Could you break.
Chris Lindstra:Who's working?
Speaker B:Could you break.
Wade Reed:Wow.
Speaker B:Could you break like 30 or 40?
Wade Reed:Sure.
Wade Reed:Yeah, absolutely.
Chris Lindstra:If nobody's very busy.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Wade Reed:Especially if you think of like, a hot and an iced as a variation, which, like, that might be part of this conversation too, but.
Wade Reed:So the real number might be like 40,000.
Chris Lindstra:Well, I think also factorial math makes the amounts exponentially higher very quickly.
Wade Reed:Right.
Wade Reed:Actually, also, like.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:What.
Wade Reed:What counts as a drink?
Wade Reed:Is it like an extra shot?
Wade Reed:Two extra shots, like.
Wade Reed:Yeah, but that's where.
Speaker B:Considering that's what I was wondering.
Speaker B:Because, like, some place like Ugly Duck or you go to Fuego or any, you know, third.
Speaker B:Wavy.
Wade Reed:Am.
Wade Reed:Fm.
Speaker B:Am.
Speaker B:Fm.
Wade Reed:Come on.
Wade Reed:Oh, where's the plug?
Chris Lindstra:I gotta say, that specialty drink that we were having while we were working through some of those fruity flavors.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:Kerry still talks about that drink, the.
Wade Reed:The Purple Coffee.
Chris Lindstra:That's.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, yeah, really good.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah, that was a blast.
Wade Reed:Yeah, I like it a lot.
Wade Reed:It's weird.
Wade Reed:And I look forward to playing with that concept.
Wade Reed:What's the name of the dream again?
Speaker B:What's the name of the Purple Coffee?
Speaker B:It's.
Wade Reed:It's literally called Purple Coffee.
Speaker B:Oh, it's like.
Chris Lindstra:It's the right name for the drink.
Chris Lindstra:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is it like Blue Milk from.
Wade Reed:A little bit.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:It's just.
Wade Reed:It's indefinable.
Wade Reed:It's just.
Wade Reed:It's purple and it's coffee and, like, you just gotta experience it and it.
Speaker B:Will be available for.
Speaker B:Is it still.
Wade Reed:It's not at the moment.
Speaker B:Boo.
Wade Reed:Because peaches are not in season.
Wade Reed:So.
Speaker B:Fair enough.
Wade Reed:I gotta find the right frozen peaches, I think.
Wade Reed:Yeah.
Wade Reed:Move on.
Wade Reed:What was the next.
Speaker B:I was gonna say.
Speaker B:I mean, we've covered a lot about what Starbucks has done, but I just.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's weird because they're talking out of both sides of their mouth here.
Speaker B:And this isn't new, but it's interesting that they keep putting this forward because I feel like if you're Starbucks at this point, you don't have to pretend you're anything different, you know, like, you don't have to be the third place.
Speaker B:You don't have to facilitate community.
Speaker B:Like, you produce a decent beverage.
Speaker B:And they even said in these documentaries that you have to make your coffee palatable.
Speaker B:Across the board.
Speaker B:And it was interesting because they said they had to purposely move away from light roasting to overcome their sugar flavors, overcome their milk flavors, and all these other things.
Speaker B:It's fascinating because it's the same thing that McDonald's does.
Speaker B:You walk into a McDonald's in China, it's literally the same as in the U.S.
Speaker B:i can only imagine that it's the same for Starbucks in any other country.
Speaker B:And that's what they want.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, McDonald's isn't pretending to be the gatehouse offering wagyu beef burgers.
Wade Reed:Right.
Speaker B:You know, so why is Starbucks wanting to even dive into latte art or pour overs or anything else at this point?
Speaker B:So.
Wade Reed:Yeah, well, and I think that it hearkens to, like, maybe some kind of identity they thought they had when they were like, you know, the disruptors.
Wade Reed:So.
Wade Reed:Right.
Speaker B:That's, you know, that's about it.
Speaker B:So I don't know if there's people out there who have other thoughts on Starbucks.
Speaker B:If there's a Starbucks employees listening to this chime in.
Speaker B:Because we're, we're open.
Speaker B:It's just, it's just the news.
Wade Reed:Yeah, there's a.
Wade Reed:Starbucks is like the incumbent, right?
Wade Reed:Yeah, they are.
Wade Reed:And like the incumbent party always, like, kind of has huge blind spots about, like, what they're doing wrong.
Wade Reed:And they, they have a story about themselves that like, nobody else can actually see.
Wade Reed:Right.
Wade Reed:And then, and, and then disaster strikes.
Wade Reed:So it's, it's, you know, I don't wish ill on the probably hundreds of thousands of Starbucks employees.
Wade Reed:Right.
Speaker B:Because we're just covering the unions.
Wade Reed:Right.
Wade Reed:But that's the other thing.
Wade Reed:Like, you can't, you can't have your CEO running for president and be anti union and then go, we're just like you, we're your neighbors.
Speaker B:We want to be a community place.
Wade Reed:Sorry.
Speaker B:We want to facilitate community.
Speaker B:Except with our employees.
Wade Reed:Yeah, except in the White House.
Wade Reed:Except, like.
Wade Reed:Yeah, we want to do it this way.
Wade Reed:That looks like McDonald's.
Wade Reed:And I'm sorry, but like, is McDonald's a third place?
Wade Reed:Like, you know, like, once you reach that level of cultural hegemony, like, or.
Chris Lindstra:You reach a certain age in a rural community.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, the only thing I'll say about that is this.
Speaker B:If you go to someplace like Dansville, they have a McDonald's, and a lot of people go to McDonald's because there aren't other big restaurants there.
Speaker B:So my grandmother, on Fridays, I'm not.
Wade Reed:Even saying there's anything wrong with going to McDonald's.
Chris Lindstra:No.
Speaker B:I'm just saying McDonald's that turns into a third place.
Wade Reed:I mean, like I.
Wade Reed:Here's the thing.
Wade Reed:There have been a number of times I finished roasting at like 1 or 2 in the morning in a 24 hour drive through McDonald's with just like a 20 piece.
Wade Reed:It's like delight, but like I don't meet any people.
Speaker B:McDonald's isn't pretending to be like anything else.
Wade Reed:And so like Starbucks is on that level and yet they're trying to not be.
Wade Reed:Yeah, I think it's, I think it's just nonsense.
Speaker B:Well, one parting note on Starbucks here is this.
Speaker B:Apparently they were caught violating the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Wade Reed:Shocking.
Speaker B:Any idea what they were doing?
Speaker B:3, 2, 1.
Speaker B:Charging for milk alternatives.
Chris Lindstra:Oh, yeah, I saw that.
Speaker B:So all of the headlines on my.
Wade Reed:Click date, that's an ADA violation.
Chris Lindstra:Apparently you're charging for allergies, Wade.
Chris Lindstra:You're charging for preventing allergies.
Wade Reed:Except, Yeah, I mean 90% of the people ordering milk alternatives don't have, don't have allergies.
Speaker B:But so the, the, the charts are 50 to 80 cents a drink might be saving.
Speaker B:So their, their profits are, they're going down.
Wade Reed:It's bad for the stock price going down.
Wade Reed:I mean, I can make all my lattes 550.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:Well, on that note, on that note, we are level up and enjoy your coffee.
Chris Lindstra:Wait a second, wait a second.
Wade Reed:Wait.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:I had to bring an end to it.
Chris Lindstra:This has been a presentation of the Lunch Door podcast network, the combinations calculator for Ugly Duck Coffee.
Chris Lindstra:If there are 15 options for syrups and you can put two in the drink, there are 105 combinations of things you could put in there.
Speaker B:That's still not 89,000.
Wade Reed:I have like four right now.
